EP119 Lawrence Jordan, ACE, Founder of Master the Workflow and A(I)ography – TV Matters
Introduction:
Technological changes in the film industry are in perpetual motion — a continuous interplay between established practices and the disruptive force of innovation. Veteran film and television editor, Lawrence Jordan, has spent over 30 years navigating the industry’s transformations, from the tangible world of 35mm film to the digital revolution and now, the rise of artificial intelligence. In a recent podcast interview, Jordan shared his experiences and insights, offering a compelling perspective on the past, present, and future of filmmaking.
Larry is the creator of AIography.ai, an email newsletter and website offering editors the latest information in rapidly developing world of filmmaking with AI.
From Film to Digital Editing:
Jordan’s career began in the era of physical film editing. He vividly recalls his early days, literally growing up in a cutting room (his father was an editor), surrounded by trim bins and the painstaking process of conforming film. “I grew up in a trim bin, as I like to say,” he quips, painting a picture of his immersion in the tactile world of celluloid. He recounted editing films like Assassins and Deuce Bigelow: Male Gigolo, experiencing firsthand the industry’s transition from film to digital workflows. While Assassins still relied on the intricate process of conforming 35mm film, Deuce Bigelow represented a turning point, with digital projection off the Avid becoming a viable option. This personal history provides essential context for understanding Jordan’s perspective on the latest technological wave: AI. “I’ve seen some amazing changes in filmmaking, the technology is the constant in filmmaking,” he observes.
The Avid Revolution:
The arrival of the Avid editing system was a watershed moment, a seismic shift that fundamentally altered the landscape of filmmaking. Jordan was an early adopter, recognizing the transformative potential of digital editing and immersing himself in the technology. “It just hit me like a bolt of lightning… I was probably, you know, 28 or 29 years old at the time. And I just said, I knew that was my future. I knew that was the way that movies were going to be made,” he recalls. He even played a key role in one of the first major studio productions, an HBO project, to be cut on Avid. This experience solidified his reputation as a tech-savvy editor, propelling his career forward.
The Dawn of AI
He draws a parallel between his early embrace of the Avid and the current excitement surrounding AI tools like Midjourney and RunwayML, suggesting that young filmmakers experiencing these tools for the first time might be having a similar “ah-ha” moment. However, he notes a key difference: “The Avid was for our specific industry, but the AI tools can be applied to, you know, everything.”
AI’s Impact: Disruption or Transformation?
Jordan acknowledges the trepidation surrounding AI’s impact on creative industries but maintains a positive outlook. “I try to keep a positive outlook on it. And, you know, I’m pretty bullish. I think it’s going to enable all of us to be more creative and do some very, very cool things,” he says. He sees AI as a paradigm shift, even more significant than the transition to digital editing. “I thought the Avid was it. I thought digital editing was it, but no, it’s definitely AI,” he asserts. He points to the rapid advancements in AI-powered tools, citing Adobe’s development of AI-driven video extension in Premiere Pro as just one example of the transformative power of this technology.
The Front Lines of AI Disruption:
So, where is AI already making its mark? Jordan identifies animation as the area most ripe for disruption. He cites the example of a full-length animated film created for a fraction of the cost of a traditional production, highlighting the potential for significant cost savings and increased accessibility. “It cost eight thousand dollars a minute to produce where the average animated feature film in Hollywood costs one point five to two million dollars a minute to produce,” he points out. While acknowledging the potential impact on jobs within the animation industry, he also notes that much of this work has already been outsourced.
He emphasizes the continued need for human operators to guide and refine AI-generated content, stressing the importance of prompting, tweaking, and understanding the underlying mechanics of these systems. “You still need human beings to operate the AI. You need human beings to prompt it. You need human beings to, you know, tweak it, understand the models and the LLMs and all of the, you know, mechanics of how, how it works,” he explains.
Beyond Animation: Expanding the AI Horizon:
Beyond animation, Jordan sees AI’s transformative influence extending to visual effects, audio (synthetic voices and sound effects), and music composition. He believes AI will become an invaluable assistant to filmmakers across all stages of production, from storyboarding and pre-visualization to scriptwriting. “I do think that AI is going to be like an assistant on steroids to all of us. They are going to be our coworker or it is going to be our coworker and, it’s going to be a very helpful one,” he predicts. While he doesn’t believe AI will replace scriptwriters, he envisions it as a powerful tool to enhance their creative process.
The Editor’s Role: Evolving, Not Obsolete:
Interestingly, Jordan places editorial picture cutting further down the list of areas facing immediate disruption. He suggests that AI might first be used to create rough cuts, assembling scenes based on dialogue tracking, leaving the nuanced work of final editing to human editors. “I think that at some point in the next, you know, five or six years, you’re going to have the AI… The AI is going to have the ability to put together a rough cut,” he hypothesizes. He argues that the human element, particularly the director-editor relationship, is crucial for crafting compelling narratives. He emphasizes the subtle nuances of performance, timing, and emotional impact that AI, at least for now, struggles to replicate. “We are, you know, we are sort of like explorers of the human psyche as editors, you know, we are, you know, we are doctors of, of emotion and, you know, presenting, nuanced, very subtle things,” he explains. He believes it will be a long time before AI can make the final creative decisions that shape Hollywood-level productions.
Trust and the Human Element:
Jordan also touches on the concept of trust. He notes the deep trust that develops between directors and editors over time, a shorthand that allows for seamless creative collaboration. He wonders whether a similar level of trust can be established with AI, suggesting that this is a key factor in its widespread adoption. “That’s a very human and instinctual thing. So, I think it’s going to be a long time before, you know, directors have that kind of trust in AI to, give them what they want before they’ve even, you know, it’s even come out of their mouth, like editors can,” he observes.
The Unforeseen Future of Entertainment:
Despite his reservations about AI’s ability to fully replace human editors, Jordan is excited about the potential for AI to unlock entirely new forms of entertainment. He points to the immersive experiences offered by venues like the Sphere in Las Vegas as examples of the innovative possibilities that AI can enable. “So, so, so what I’m saying, you know, Misha is that we haven’t even thought of some of the stuff that we’re going to create with AI at this point,” he suggests. He believes that artists are already experimenting with these tools, creating interactive 3D experiences and other forms of media that we haven’t yet imagined. He draws a parallel to the rise of TikTok and Instagram Reels, highlighting the unpredictable nature of media consumption and the potential for AI to drive the creation of entirely new visual languages and forms of storytelling.
Advice for the AI-Curious:
For those apprehensive about AI, Jordan’s advice is simple: start playing. He recommends experimenting with tools like Midjourney for image generation, exploring the capabilities of video generators, and familiarizing oneself with AI-powered voice generators like 11 labs. “I say, just, just go in and start playing,” he advises. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the mechanics of these systems and learning how to effectively prompt and refine AI-generated content. He also suggests that even failed experiments can be valuable learning experiences, providing insights into the limitations and potential of AI.
A Hybrid Approach:
Show host Misha Tenenbaum shared anecdotes of his own experiments with AI tools, highlighting the unexpected challenges and the need for a hybrid approach, combining new and old techniques. He recounted an experience trying to add a UFO to a shot using AI, encountering unexpected alterations to the background characters. “It literally looked like someone cut out a cartoon spaceship and put it in,” he described. He also emphasized the value of investing in these tools for educational purposes, even if the end product isn’t immediately usable. “Maybe the answer here is a combination of new and old techniques,” he concluded.
Conclusion:
Jordan’s acknowledges the disruptive potential of AI while emphasizing the enduring importance of human creativity, collaboration, and emotional intelligence. His journey, from the trim bin to the digital frontier and now into the age of AI, provides a valuable framework for understanding the ongoing evolution of storytelling and the exciting possibilities that lie ahead.
Additional Resources
- Avid Media Composer: A professional non-linear video editing software. (Search for “Avid Media Composer” on Avid’s website as specific product pages change frequently.)
- Midjourney: An AI art generation program. https://www.midjourney.com/home/
- RunwayML: A creative suite with AI tools for video editing, image generation, and more. https://runwayml.com/
- ChatGPT: A large language model-based chatbot developed by OpenAI. https://chat.openai.com/
- 11 labs: An AI voice generation and sound effects platform. https://elevenlabs.io/
